Jane Lu: [00:00:00] So I grew up with such a big fear of failure. Like in high school for example, I just, if I didn't think I could succeed in something, I didn't try. 'cause my parents continuously remind me how much they sacrificed for me when they moved to Australia. I couldn't bring myself to tell them that I was going to leave it all and resign to start a fashion business that wasn't validated and proven yet.
For six months, I would put on my suit every day, get up early. And then pretend you go to work for someone to start a fashion label. You think they've got money, they've got connections. I didn't tick any of those boxes.
David Jepson: I can't wait to come back and ask you about shark . By the way, we're gonna do that.
We're gonna do that a little bit later. You're
Jane Lu: like, am I an extra or a main character? I'm about to find out. .
David Jepson: Exactly. ,
Jane Lu: you are not special. No one's going to believe in your little fashion business. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get 200 mil. I'm gonna do it by 2020, and I'm gonna ask you to leave.
David Jepson: I feel like I'm not allowed to say this, but I've kind of got to, uh.[00:01:00]
We are gonna be launching our International Women's Day, uh, we're gonna be doing a list of inspiring female entrepreneurs.
Jane Lu: Oh, great. So that's really
David Jepson: exciting. And we thought, hmm, who could we, who could we do a, a podcast with? Who is a really exciting, inspiring female entrepreneur who's achieved some great things, and your name came to the top of that list.
So really happy to talk to you today.
Jane Lu: Thank you. Well, thank you very much. That's very exciting.
David Jepson: I know you've done a number of these types of, um, interviews. You've talked quite a lot about your journey, what it was that led you to founding the business. Obviously starting in a corporate role and leaving that and selling up the company.
What was the moment when you decided, or you knew, I'm an entrepreneur and this is, this is for me going forward, .
Jane Lu: Well, I never even, I definitely never . Thought I could be [00:02:00] an entrepreneur. Um, you know, we didn't have anyone that did that in our immediate family, and we immigrated to Australia when I was eight.
So the only thing me and my family ever wanted was financial stability, which is, is kind of like the opposite of starting a business. So definitely never grew up with that feeling and idea or desire. I think part of it was like just, I guess, . It, getting the idea of it getting romanticized the first time I heard about it.
Um, and then also just really, really actually hating my corporate job. So I worked in accounting, um, thought that I liked the idea. I. I think, and then, so I think when I was younger, I romanticized the idea of wearing a suit in a high rise building, working for a multinational, traveling for work. Um, and that to me sounded so exciting along with the financial security, um, until I realized I absolutely hated it.
Um. And it was just, you know, [00:03:00] slowly killing me one day at a time. , I think I like I the point I realized I didn't, I think I realized I hated corporate life before I realized, uh, loved entrepreneurship. And it was this moment when I realized that I started to look at the 40 years like my, a career in corporate, in accounting.
Um, instead of . A life of financial stability. I started to look at it as 40 years of hard time in accounting prison, and I was like, can't do that. And I just thought, you know, why work my butt off to be mediocre at something. I'm never gonna be great at this. Let's just give something else a go. Um, and so basically a, at this point, a friend came to me with an idea to run pop-up stores to stock products from emerging designers.
And I had no background in fashion at all. You know, for someone to start a fashion label, you think they've got money, they've got connections, um, and they . Look and [00:04:00] are certain ways. I didn't tick any of those boxes, but my, I guess my philosophy on anything is like, if you don't have a better idea, then we'll just go with the one that's out there, you know?
That's why I tell my team sometimes. I'm like, well, you don't have a better idea, so we're just gonna do what I've suggested, but you are welcome to come at me with a better idea anyway, so that, I guess your, sorry, your question is, when did I know? I think it's . I, I think I never really recognized myself as an actual entrepreneur until I started, was able to like, make a living from it.
That was probably the moment when I was like, okay, this is, this is real .
David Jepson: Yeah. And there's no going back at that point. Point. That's right. Yeah. One of the things that holds people back from starting businesses, from some of the stuff I've read this is particularly true of, of, of women is perhaps the, the fear of taking the
The risk and what may happen if that risk is taken. Like what, what would you, what would you [00:05:00] say to people in terms of perhaps some of the earlier struggles you, you faced, how you overcame them and what would you advise people to think about in terms of that fear of failure and how to deal with it?
Jane Lu: Yeah. I honestly still have a fear of failure. Um, and I think it's. So I grew up with such a big fear of failure. Like in high school for example. I just, if I didn't think I could succeed in something, I didn't try. I remember years before I actually, when I was at uni, first year, I had this idea, I. Someone told me about a, someone told me their mom lost weight from drink drinking Ong tea.
And I'm like, wow. It was just like a Chinese tea. Like we could definitely capitalize off that. Let's just go to the markets. Um, we'll go to the markets and we'll sell it and we'll package it up. So there's like now a lot of brands that do that really well. This is way before that. We'll put it into like really nice boxes.
We'll make it look like it's. You know, we'll put, we'll put in some Chinese medicine philosophy into it, [00:06:00] um, and we'll go sell it, but we'll tell people that we're working for like a rich man. and we are just his employees because if we bump into anyone we know, we don't want them to know. We've tried to sell the business like that was a hundred percent my way of thinking because my main fear was that you don't want someone to find out in case you fail.
When I first started Show Pro, so many people actually told me, you have such. A good job, why don't you stay in it? Um, and like, actually, ironically, um, it's those people, some of those people were the first to come to me for advice, uh, when everything was successful. And I think part of it, like, you know, with hindsight, you can see that for, for those people you are kind of doing what they're most afraid of doing and what they really want.
And by you going there and just doing it and taking the risk, you, you're kind of validating that it can be done and putting. Question mark. On why they're not doing it. So that's definitely one part of it. And then , well, the other thing is [00:07:00] my, for, you know, as, as an immigrant child, and I'm sure other people as well, but I, I, I put this down to the fact that we are immigrants, um, because my parents.
Continuously remind me how much they sacrificed for me when they moved to Australia. You know, everything that they had wanted was that so that I can go work in this, you know, you, you get, you go into the right high school so that you can get the right mark to get the right union degree, to get the right job, to get that financial stability.
And so when I had it, I couldn't bring myself to tell them that I was going to. Leave it all and resign to start a fashion business that had wasn't validated and proven yet. And I was still living at home at this point. Um, and I, I'm an only child, so all the spotlight is on me. Ah. So I didn't want them to, 'cause I'm already questioning myself every day.
I, I knew I will be questioning myself every day. Like, what the, what the hell are you doing? So I didn't want them to . They question me every day, and that [00:08:00] will play into that fear of failure. Um, so then I just didn't tell them. So for six months I would put on my suit every day, get up early, and then pretend to go to work.
And then my mom actually worked in the city at this point as well, so we would get the bus into the sea together. Um, that's all from having a fear of like. My parents thinking I'm a failure.
David Jepson: And I, I often find that, I don't know, may, maybe it'd be interesting to see if you agree with this. As I've progressed in my career and been successful in certain areas, I, I think maybe there's this conception that the fear of failure disappears, but I actually find may even be the opposite.
'cause the stakes. Seem to rise.
Jane Lu: Yes, exactly. , it's, yes, that's right. The stakes keep getting the Yes.
David Jepson: So maybe it's a false kind of goal to think that if I keep getting better at what I do and keep building my experience, eventually I won't. Yeah,
Jane Lu: I no longer
David Jepson: had a fear of failure.
Jane Lu: It's like you, if you can retrain your brain, you're thinking it's a [00:09:00] positive thing.
One of the last time I had the biggest imposter syndrome was probably like doing Shark Tank, and I'm in the tank and I'm like, okay, try and sound smart. Don't say anything dumb. Whatcha gonna ask next? And like, are the producers gonna regret casting me? Like what? They're like, she's a dud. She's not, you know, and just being like, what am I doing here?
Against with all these other, all the other people, all the other judges. Um, and then it's just like, you're like, okay, no, you are only, you are only thinking like this. You're only ever in that position when you're doing something really cool. You, you only do it when you're leveling up and you're taking yourself out of your comfort zone.
So it's like a really good thing. So that's kind of like one way to think about it. Do you watch, are you a Simpsons fan?
David Jepson: I was, I've probably not watched Simpsons for about 10 years, but I used to watch it a lot. Oh, only maybe the
Jane Lu: first 10 seasons are the og se seasons are good. . Remember when do Homer was an inventor and then he went, he was like big into Edison and he went to, and he realized [00:10:00] he was really deflated that he could never be Edison.
And then he goes into, um, Edison's house, and then he realizes that Edison's . Idol was Leonardo da Vinci, and he's like, you know, we all have someone that we're idolizing up to. And that's what I, I actually don't remember what the message was, but in my takeaway in my head, what I remember, remember we all have like, you know, these bigger goals.
It's only, like he said, it always gets bigger and it keeps you, it keeps you moving forward. Um, you know, and you want to be constantly challenged like that,
David Jepson: uh, completely. I think that's so true, isn't it? It's, it's learning to . Feel privileged that you get to be pushed outside your comfort zone. You get to try these new things.
You get to have these new experiences.
Jane Lu: Yeah, absolutely.
David Jepson: I can't wait to come back and ask you about Shark Tank, by the way. We're gonna do that. We're gonna do that a little bit later.[00:11:00]
Showpo is known for being fun and. bold and social first, how would you describe your leadership style? Is it ? Would it be those three words I've just said and and how has it evolved as the company's grown?
Jane Lu: Yeah, I think, I guess I've never, unlike most people, I've never had any form of management training, so I'm not the best manager and I like to just, um, build a great company that.
People gen, like, you know, that you're just not hiring dickhead in the first place, um, and you're hiring great people that help build, move the business along. I think for me, um, it's, it's probably been more important to have seen what bad managers have been like, to know what I don't want to be like. And over the years,
It always changes because you know, in the early days you're like the same age as everyone and your friends, you are on your week spending weekends together, going on holidays together, and then all of a sudden [00:12:00] it's, I feel like covid happened. Kids happen, and now I'm like. 10, 12 years older than most of the team.
And I'm like, when did this happen? , there's like a new line between like being the boss and the friend and I guess also showboats become bigger, that they're like, oh, it's, you know, you're not just, I don't know. It's, it's, it's, it keeps evolving. Um, and I think I just, I always come back to like, be the boss that you want to have.
I'll be the leader that you want to have .
David Jepson: Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the point about Covid is a good one. I, I, I feel something similar. I used to do a lot of traveling between the offices. I would know every person in the company. Mm. I name I'd have had beers with them, you know, I, but then as Covid came, it's completely changed the way that.
Uh, I manage people, the way I communicate with people, the way I, you know, working with people I've never met, making hires, hiring people you've never met, and then working with them for a number of years. It's, it's a really different way of doing things. [00:13:00] Yeah.
Jane Lu: It's like you met sometimes you've been working with someone for like a year and you're like, oh, I, it's nice to see your legs for the first time.
How
David Jepson: has, has that affected the way you communicate? Within the company. Like what are some lessons you'd give entrepreneurs on how to communicate inside a growing company like that in today's today's world?
Jane Lu: Um, yeah, I think it's easy to get complacent and lose that transparency with the team. 'cause I think we, you know, before Covid.
And we, it was just, and we had everything like really set up with like regular, like company updates, coffee, catchups for starters, coffee catchups for people at different levels. And a lot of that like kind of just like . Fell by the wayside because it felt like we had these organic, like really nice processes for the team to get to know each other when we were in the office.
And just a lot of like natural organic things. 'cause we had beer and rose on tap, so it's just easy to have , [00:14:00] everyone sticking around on a Friday night. Yeah. And then it became these like awkward forced covid initiatives speaking to 50 heads in on, on the Zoom call. And everyone's on mute. No one's laughing along, like in person , and it's, it's just everything just got a bit, you know, and I think it's easy for us, some of these ni nice things that you built to just kind of, you kind of fall by the wayside.
So we've, once we've brought those back, we found that it's just been so much more engaging for the, uh, team.
David Jepson: Yeah, so like you say, when it's a small company and perhaps everyone's in one site, it's reasonably easy to like encode a culture. How do you do that across a ? A bigger organization,
Jane Lu: um, Covid Ha. One of the great things is it's helped us work with more agencies, freelancers, offshore team.
Mm-hmm. It's like really made us, um, be more global with like our workforce and. Have more, also like more [00:15:00] flexibility for parents or people who have special circumstances. So that's been great. Honestly, like I think this, this might be hard for everyone. Like we just have a great HR team who just, they do regular check-ins and we have a lot of like cultural initiatives.
It's, it's easy to not do things right because you kind of don't feel like there's not, like there's value from . Each time you do these certain things, but once it becomes a cadence of every fortnight, we have like weekly team meet where we, you know, all gather around and company update, team update, get to, and then the other alternate fortnight, we, we have, um, chapeau happy hour cheese boards, get to know the new people, have some drinks.
It's easy to be like, let's skip it. We're busy this week, but. If you just keep those things being in place, just keeps everyone like very united or just like, I don't know. It's a, it's a good way for get people to get, to get to know each other
David Jepson: either within e-commerce or just generally within business.
Obviously the exposure you've had to the sharks, is there a particular trend [00:16:00] that you think people need to be talking about right now?
Jane Lu: I think it's, a lot of it is like, I mean, I guess it's not necessarily new, but like . Real, organic, raw, authentic storytelling and content. Um, I think . There's just the, the people that are doing it well are just like flying.
You can see any traditional businesses that manage to crack the code, actually kill it. Um, and any new businesses that do it, they can just, they can just, you know, have exponential growth. And I think another one is probably like the growth of like the creator economy, which is kind of like a create associated with that, with the, um, with like things like TikTok shop, like the power of like a, a small creator.
The power of one person can have on storytelling is huge. Like, almost like everyone can have a voice. Um, so that is, that is really quite exciting.
David Jepson: Isn't that one of the amazing things about social media? I guess both of those things you mentioned there is if you can get your [00:17:00] storytelling right. Yeah, no, for
Jane Lu: I think it's exciting that anyone can do it because I think
You know, 6, 6, 8 years ago, you kind of like you needed to be. It's, you know, there's, it's, it is a cliche, but it's, it's based on some truth. Like, you know, a bikini body, hot girl. Like to, to get that following. Of course there's, I mean, uh, there are many exceptions to the rule, but now I think we, we, in this day and age where anyone can do it, actually, if you can just show your, where you are unique and where you are different and you can.
Niche down in any market, and if you do it well, you can have this amazing global reach.
David Jepson: What's a leadership lesson you wished you would've learned earlier or been taught earlier?
Jane Lu: That's the thing. I definitely have made mistakes. I. , you know, you, I have made making mistakes on the job and that's hard because you are making mistakes.
You know, it does impact someone's career and like where they're working and when you're just starting and you [00:18:00] don't have a HR person to ask for help, you don't even have entrepreneur friends to ask for help. You are kind of learning on the job. Like sometimes I wish I could like, because it'd be weird to do it, but sometimes I do wish I can reach out to people that like I.
you know, would've fired or like, had a bad working relationship with those early days and not necessarily man, managed it well and be like, sorry. Like, I'm definitely not that person now. Um, I've learned my lesson, but I've had to, you know, at the time you're kind of doing what you think is best. Like, nothing bad, nothing too bad.
I just think, you know now, like you've. I, I've just learned so much more throughout the years and so much of it you learn on the job and non-confrontational. So in those early days, if someone annoyed me, I, instead of pulling them into a meeting and having like a conversation and giving that feedback.
'cause my biggest thing now is like if, if we were to have a performance meeting. You'll never be blindsided. You already have that feedback because feedback is a gift and it works both ways. I want [00:19:00] feedback from people too, and I'm an open door, but I know how to communicate, um, feedback better now I think well or better.
Um, but I think in those early days, I think I would be, I don't know, you just kind of beat around the bush and then you just, like, it just builds up this tension and it's, I just was avoiding confrontation too much. Yeah, and I think as the leader, you have to have the balls to have those conversations
David Jepson: completely and often.
Doesn't it feel like it feels easier or nicer not to give them the feedback. In the short term, you feel like you're doing the nice thing for them, but actually in the long run you're not you because like you say, if you'd have given them that feedback, maybe they could have. Corrected and then, you know, we wouldn't be in the position later on, but yeah.
Yeah, it's super hard.
Jane Lu: One of the best ones was I was work, finally woke myself up. I'm like, I'm gonna have gonna give her feedback. And I wrote all the, and I was on the sandwich. The shit sandwich, right? The shit sandwich. I wrote the compliments. [00:20:00] I wrote the feedback, we right. I went in there, she's like, you know what?
I resigned. I'm like, it's the best day of my life.
David Jepson: picked up a while ago. I used to try and . Predict or plan how, especially conversations like that. I used to try and sort of strategize if the person says this, I'll say this and, and I just learned that that's just pointless. 'cause there's no way you can predict how people are gonna Yeah,
Jane Lu: exactly.
Respond
David Jepson: or react or you just gotta. Yeah, you just gotta roll with it.
Jane Lu: Exactly.
David Jepson: my research here says this, correct me if I'm wrong, , the research said, um, you've said that in investing in women is how we change the world.
Jane Lu: Yes.
David Jepson: Good. So that's true. , what does that mean to you and how have you seen that play out? Sort of either in your business or around you Generally,
Jane Lu: [00:21:00] if Show Pro is like a company that's completely driven, it's driven by women.
Um, and I think we've always had female leaders on top. Um, which is just, I guess something that I haven't, I. I been used to in the corporate world where I used to work corporate, there was not only was there a glass ceiling, there was a bamboo ceiling. So, um, you know, it didn't, it looked very ominous, the path forward.
Um, that and the fact that I was bad at my job, I was like, that's part of why I'm like, this isn't gonna go well. There's just so many. Stats with like having women at the top, like the impact on that for a business. And I can see it, I guess in real life in my business. So I definitely think that like fe yeah.
Investing with women has such a big impact, not only in businesses, but I think like in society as well.
David Jepson: You've, you've grown showpo without external funding, correct?
Jane Lu: Yeah.
David Jepson: Yeah. Would you. So that, that's another area that gets discussed a lot in terms of sort of [00:22:00] female entrepreneurs is perhaps a, a lack of access to.
Yeah, to funding, certainly funding going towards the, yeah,
Jane Lu: I dunno what the statistic, it's something like less than 1% or 3% of it. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy isn't it? Can't, it's
David Jepson: a ridiculous, it's hard statistic. It's,
Jane Lu: I mean, I've been very lucky in that, like, I haven't ever had to look for funding. Um, but speaking to other female entrepreneurs, like it definitely seems like a diff so, such a, it will be such a difficult thing.
The thing is, the consumers who actually will buy, just buy things based on like . Something they see on the influencer on an ad. That's mainly women, right? Like I'm just speaking about the people that I'm, I know, follow more recommendations from friends, right? Women will, are the people that will buy, and those it's female, uh, product businesses that you've, we've seen skyrocket in recent years from e-commerce.
Anyway, my point is, but it's, it's almost like up to someone to be able to articulate that. So if you didn't go to like. [00:23:00] Waterton or Harvard Business School, like I would imagine like, or, or the equivalent of Australia, I would imagine it would be so hard. So my experience has been, I guess, kind of in that space.
We were looking for a CTO, so a chief technology officer, and we were at the point where doing like a few million dollars a year, but the growth was, there was huge growth. So, but it wasn't necessarily . A serious business just yet. We went to a recruiter to look for a CTO and he basically said that, I don't think you'll be able to find a CTO unless you make him a co-founder.
Which essentially he was saying like, no one's going to believe in your little fashion business because you know, it's just, you're just selling clothes. Unless you give him equity, you're not gonna get someone good to take you seriously unless you give away equity. He said, you're not gonna get your a hundred mil without.
Getting a tech co-founder. That's what he said. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna get 200 mil. I'm gonna do it by 2020 [00:24:00] and I'm gonna ask you to leave. And so, and annoyingly, we were on track to doing it. And then covid hit, but then we got bed just after anyway.
David Jepson: Nice. Congratulations.
Jane Lu: Thank you.
David Jepson: Knowing kind of what you know now and the experience you've had, would you, would you have gone for external funding?
Jane Lu: Yeah, this is the thing, like I have definitely always said no to external funding until when Covid, I keep referring to Covid. Those, those were the tough years. I don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change what's happened, but um, and I definitely, if I was to start another business, I definitely wouldn't do it.
But I can definitely see the merits in it.
David Jepson: I was just thinking if, if you'd been put off from going for external funding. Because of the climate, but it was just a business decision that this wasn't right. Yeah, well, it
Jane Lu: was actually more a personal, because I worked in, um, corporate finance, so basically doing due diligence for other companies looking to buy and acquire businesses, [00:25:00] and I literally worked.
So hard on the business to get away from that space. So to spend another year preparing my own due diligence stock for Showpo to go on the road show to pitch to investors, I was like, oh my God, no way. That's literally the one thing I'm getting away from. So , it just, I was like, I would rather just go, I make the money than get the investors money.
And then I have a boss again. And I think with more maturity, I think this thing that has changed when Covid was tough and as business gets bigger and it's not, there's more, you are risking more and you are kind of playing with bigger amounts of money. I, I do see the. Having the investor help is something that I value more.
So I think that having like a great mentor is something that would, that would be of value over just like, um, the capital injection in those early days.[00:26:00]
David Jepson: Referring back to Covid, I dunno if you feel the same. I feel like since then time just goes by, so. . so quickly. For whatever reason, I was looking back into our archives and I saw we had a picture of you actually at our International Women's Day in event in 2020.
Jane Lu: Wow. I think
David Jepson: it was.
Jane Lu: Oh, just before Covid.
David Jepson: yeah. Did I, did
Jane Lu: I look a lot less, so much younger and less stressed. , it's like that's pre Covid years. , yeah, .
David Jepson: But that was, I mean, that was only three or four years ago, and I imagine, imagine how much has changed. Mm-hmm . Since then, it's,
Jane Lu: um, no, it's, it's, yeah. It's been, it's been an incredible journey. We're going into our, I think our 15 year, this year ,
David Jepson: I feel like, I'm not allowed to say this, but I've kind of got to, uh, the like-minded bitches drinking wine.
Jane Lu: Yes.
David Jepson: So that's grown quickly. I understand it's growing globally as well. You've [00:27:00] got people around the world. That's
Jane Lu: right. Getting involved. So it's basically a business group on, mainly on Facebook. I think we've got over 180,000 members now, but we've done events in 25 cities all over the world. In the States.
Wow. In Europe, in Asia, actually, on International Women's Day we're doing a conference, um, and it's called Bitch Con. Um, with like, and we're getting amazing speakers to come and they're all, but all the profits from the ticket sales are going to a charity. It's going to the Hunger Project, which again, is like, it's an amazing business that really focuses on using women as the solution to fight poverty and global world hunger.
Supporting women to, you know, really make an impact. That's what they do, so they all look at . They basically give microfinance loans to women in third world countries. And then there's just these amazing stories on women who have just given this, this one little chance, this one little loan. There's, there's a woman who, she, her, [00:28:00] her and her family were only having like one meal a day and then they were able to get this little loan to grow maze.
And then they were able to have feed themselves three days a week, and then they started planting more and selling at the market. Then with that, she reinvested and she started bought a sewing machine. Now she's making clothes, selling that on the market. At the time I heard the story, she was saving up to buy a motorcycle so that her and she can go to like other cities.
Like the nearby neighborhoods, you know? And then there's been stories about women who are so proud to show off, like what, what they've been able to achieve. And not only are they able to support their community, they have surplus food for the communities around them. It all comes from the women in these communities, from being able to have this chance.
Which I just really, really resonate with so much. Like, you know, I think about like if I wasn't able to move to Australia, like what the opportunities I would've had if I grew up in like the rural [00:29:00] China versus city China. Like the opportunities, it's like, you know, not everyone gets given a fair chance in life, but everyone can still have their extra help.
Really exciting, really exciting charity.
David Jepson: So cool. It's so funny you mentioned that. So we, around probably the same time this will be released, we were also gonna be releasing a podcast with a, a guy called, um, professor Mohamed Unis. And he was, he won the Nobel Prize. He was one of the first to do exactly what you're saying.
He was doing micro loans in Bangladesh in the 19 Wow. Eighties.
Jane Lu: Wow. Uh,
David Jepson: even, maybe even earlier. Um, and it was just exactly the stuff you're talking about. Incredible. And one thing he said on that podcast, which was really interesting, he said he thought that credit should be a human right.
Jane Lu: Mm. Yeah. I like that.
Interesting. I've never heard that before.
David Jepson: Yeah. He thinks everyone is, basically, everyone is an entrepreneur inside and they just, sometimes they don't have the [00:30:00] tools and the number one tool, I guess is, is credit quite a lot of the time. If you don't, if you can't afford to buy the material, then how are you gonna make the, yeah.
Jane Lu: Well that's the only reason actually I was able to start my business is because I did have credit cards from when I worked corporate and they were absolutely maxed out. Otherwise, there's, there would've been no way .
David Jepson: Yeah. . Yeah, that's, that's amazing. Again, on, on the mentorship side. Mm-hmm . Obviously you do your podcast.
Um,
Jane Lu: oh yes. Well, this is where in that studio right now, there's, there you are signage to prove it. .
David Jepson: Uh, what, what kind of impact are you hoping to have through, through the podcast, through mentorship?
Jane Lu: Well, I'm actually getting a little bit mentored by the businesses I interview, which I really love. It's like networking on speed.
Like just like every week you can pick, I get to like pick who I want to speak to, um, reach out to like someone I look up to, and then I get to share it with everyone. Anyone else who wants to listen like it's. It's a, it's an [00:31:00] incredible concept and yeah, so love that. And then I think with basically, you know, on Shark Tank, you not only are you kind of questioned whether this is a good business because you know, you, you wanna know if you wanna make an, an investment in the business, but you.
Also give advice to the businesses, but they're generally quite defensive. Sorry, they're not defensive, but they're not in the position to really take it on because first of all, there's cameras points at you, which is probably the first time that's happened. There's five different people firing questions at you.
So it's not a place to really give that much advice. And you also want to be able to like defend against those things. You wanna back your business, right? But I kind of really love that. Hard part of it. So I think like bringing it in into like a little, our own little format we started doing on the podcast, doing it on TikTok.
David Jepson: Is there one piece of advice you'd give to, particularly thinking about women out there who are thinking about starting a business? Is there a [00:32:00] particular message you would give to them? To encourage them to do so.
Jane Lu: I guess, I mean, look it, it, people will be not doing it for all different reasons, but I would just tell them like to back yourself actually.
Like think about the cost of not doing it. You know, for me personally, like I. At the time, I, you know, I, I was younger. I would've over dramatized every situation, you know? 'cause all of a sudden, at one point when my business failed, I was unemployed. I was in debt. Um, I was, couldn't get another job because it was in the middle of the global financial crisis.
And then I, and now I. I'm a failure 'cause my business failed and I was still pretending to go to work and I didn't know how to tell my parents. So you're like, that was the worst thing that happened at that point. And I, you know, luckily got out of it, but even if I didn't start a successful business, like I would've just found another job eventually.
That's like the worst case scenario, right? Like [00:33:00] the worst case scenario for me right now versus what I have . Is that I would be stuck in a job that I hated, you know? And I, that for me is so much worse. So you have one life. You don't wanna always be wondering. I think you also have to believe in yourself that you can succeed.
And it's not a straight path, like it could lead you into other things. Like my failed business led me into this business. Life is not predictable. You have to just like, take yourself out of your comfort zone, take yourself out of the usual and opening yourself up to change and pivot and learn. And, you know, things will, if you work your butt, it will work out.
Not necessarily in the way that you, um, want it necessarily, but yeah, I think there's, there's always more, and I like to use this analogy of like, golf, you know, it's not about hitting a goal in one. And if you miss. You're like, all right, I'm out. See ya. Um, you know, if you miss, you just, you [00:34:00] go closer. You, because you, you at least closer.
You pivot, you readjust your strategy, and then you, the most important thing is to have another swing. And each time you get closer and you get better. Yeah.
David Jepson: Completely. Are you a golfer?
Jane Lu: No. I just couldn't think of a better analogy. .
David Jepson: I was gonna say, when you say every time you get closer, that's not always my experience with golf.
Sometimes I end up every time you play part,
Jane Lu: I don't know, .
David Jepson: There you go.
Shark Tank.
Jane Lu: Yes.
David Jepson: Yeah. So after being on Shark Tank, has your perspective on investing, I. Changed at all.
Jane Lu: Look, even like if, if it gets renewed one more year, I think I'm gonna have a big pivot in my strategy. 'cause I kind of genuinely want a bunch of, I think initially I wanted like a lot of little small businesses where I can really make an impact.
Like if I work hard with them, we can like [00:35:00] two x three x growth in a few months. Like we can do a lot. I think now, uh, just with like how much time that takes, how difficult it is to run my business and have two kids and a social life. Like, no, I think I need to, I wanna move. I probably want to also then diversify into later stage, not still later stage, but later stage for Shark Tank, you know, um, relative to Shark Tank.
I also want to . Take it as an opportunity to actually learn about new industries. I think I've been, previously, I just kind of, I kind of default into what I know, but I think now that especially even doing the help my small businesses, speaking to a lot more businesses across other industries through the podcast, I feel like it's a lot of the same principles.
Um, so I'm actually excited to, you know, use that as an opportunity to kind of expand my horizon and diversify. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit.
David Jepson: So is that your, is that your vision to sort of move [00:36:00] into being an investor and having a portfolio of companies that you are involved in? Is that the goal?
Jane Lu: I mean, I want to, my husband will say no because he is like, you've got so much
It's, he's like, I'm gonna have half the work is gone. The fallback on me . Yeah. . Yeah. Um, he works as our chief financial officer and general manager, but he's also currently the chief technology officer as well. He does every, all the boring parts of the business essentially. Sorry. And you, he works . He, I, he calls, he calls my, so we even like marketing.
He'll look after digital marketing and he calls what I, he says, you look after the coloring in department. Which interesting. Again, please, anyone who work do not be insult to. We're just joking. We respect everyone.
David Jepson: How long have you worked together for?
Jane Lu: Uh, probably six years.
David Jepson: Wow.
Jane Lu: Yeah. It works really well because his love language is
Uh, quality time and mine is acts of service, so [00:37:00] he works for me for free and then he gets to hang out with me sometimes at work.
David Jepson: Perfect.
Jane Lu: He just gets more quality time, so .
David Jepson: Interesting. Going back to Shark Tank, I dunno if you've played this out in your head before, how would it have gone if you'd have pitched Showpo?
Back in the day.
Jane Lu: Oh, actually it's funny. So Robert Vek, he is, um, on both Canadian American, um, Australian Shark Tank and he is honestly one of the highlights of being this whole experience. Like I get, uh, and I sit next, I've sat next to him both years. I'm like, I get a front row seat to Rob Herjavec and he's just.
So nice and so entertaining. And one of the things that he says is the biggest difference from the Australian and American shark Tanks are that in America, like there's a more like sell yourself culture. Like it's not. If, if you are selling yourself, if you are like going, this [00:38:00] is me, this is what I do, you know, it's very accept, it's very normal and it's very encouraged.
If he goes, this is the worst pitch ever. People will be like, what? No, I've got like, people will defend themselves in Australia. He's like, everyone's like, yeah, you are probably right. Oh yeah. Like they were just very chilled. It's very laid back and I think that's what I would be like if someone was like, yeah, I don't know.
Like, I mean, what's so special about ? Selling clothes on the internet, and I'll be like, you're probably right. Mm-hmm . Like, you know, I feel like it's just, I, I'm, I'm not saying like America's a certain way, I'm just saying that's is Australians are just very chill. .
David Jepson: My experience of America is very similar.
They, I mean, they love a good sales picture. Yeah. Like they, and they enjoy advertising. I mean, you just have to watch the Super Bowl. Like people look forward to the , to the advertising.
Jane Lu: It's uh, yeah. I love it. Oh my God.
David Jepson: as a shark. , what do you think is the biggest reddest flag in a pitch? What's something that could put you [00:39:00] off for it
Jane Lu: quickly?
Yeah, definitely like not knowing your numbers. If you don't know your numbers for a pitch, if you're not prepared for a pitch, when you are asking for money, how bad are you gonna be? Once you have the money, are you, if you are, if you are not prepared when you've got. Going on TV, asking for money, then this is the best you're gonna get.
So that's definitely a red flag. Um, and I think another red flag is ego. Like I just cannot, would not want to work with, cannot imagine working with someone with ego. So any signs of that, um, out .
David Jepson: Yeah. What do you see as a sign of that ego that you've, you've mentioned there, what are some things that people can look out for?
Jane Lu: Well, especially when you're interviewing, I think like . Blaming the situation, not taking accountability. Um, I think also sometimes people might work for a success successful company and attribute too much of that success to their input. I like to always like [00:40:00] ask in interviews, like, what, when we ask for a reference, what's the, what would your manager tell you?
That you need to work on. And I say, and just remember, self-awareness is one of the most important skills. Skills of all. So then they're not just trying to be like, oh, I'm a perfectionist. I'm like, really? You think like when we call your manager, they're gonna say, you are a perfectionist and you don't like letting go and that's like the one thing that you need to work on.
And I make it sound like I'm really take, I'm really gonna judge them, like assess them based on like how well they get that, right.
David Jepson: Yeah.
Jane Lu: So yeah, everyone can use that. I think it's a good one. .
David Jepson: That's a good one. Uh, we're gonna finish with a quickfire round. I know you enjoy these. I've seen you do a few of these.
Yeah. . So the first thing that comes to mind, what's the best business advice you've ever received?
Jane Lu: You are not special. I, I can't make a quick, I have to explain it quickly. It's from my, um, husband, [00:41:00] and this is back many years ago. He's like, when, whenever I'm like, too scared to do something public speaking or like, take your risk in this, it, it started with like wanting to get my manual drive, driver's license and I'm like, oh, I can't do it, blah, blah, blah.
He's like, well, half the pe most people in Europe drive can drive manual. Sorry, stick shift. Is that what you call? Mm-hmm. Um, so what you think you are so special that you can't do it? Like what? What makes you so special? So that's kind of like, just joy. Oh, interesting. You know, like, spin on it. Don't be, don't, don't have an excuse.
David Jepson: Yeah. A book or a podcast that's had a big impact on you.
Jane Lu: Uh, how will you measure your life? Clayton and Christensen? Do you want to explain me? You were very
David Jepson: emphatic with that.
Jane Lu: Yeah, I mean, I don't read, I've only read five books in my life. I also like The Lean Startup, that's another one. But it's basically, it's like, you know, it's, it's just quickly, it's not really rapid fire, but I, I'm gonna sell it to everyone that's listening.
Um, I think it's the guy who wrote The Innovators Dilemma, but this is his less famous [00:42:00] book, but he alludes. Two, um, situations in business and in personal life because basically he went to his Harvard five year reunion. Everyone's doing really well. He goes to, everyone's getting great jobs, goes see his 10 year reunion.
Everyone's getting married, some people are having kids. People are like at the top of their game. In the corporate world goes through 20 years. People are estranged from their kids, divorced from their wives, and they are also some of, some of the pe, some of the guys from Enron. So you know, really just, he's like, I know that no one that works this hard that I went and had the same kind of education with.
No one sets out to be like not successful and in all these areas of life. And he kind of does almost like he does this, kind of uses his harbor brains to kind of like. Do a study on like, what are the reasons that led to that? And then he then, not only does he talk about it, he'll have like an example where he's comparing the business world and the, you know, family and kids and it's, and it's only [00:43:00] like 150 pages for some, so for someone who doesn't like reading, it's great.
Perfect. Yes. I, I've, interesting. Not taken, there's no affiliate link. I'm not working for the book.
David Jepson: One business tool or app that you couldn't live without.
Jane Lu: Yeah. Chat. GBT. .
David Jepson: Yeah, completely. It's Can you imagine that that didn't exist? I know a year ago
Jane Lu: I even like, even like for my kids and my four year old's, like, what? Why is something sweet and something sour? I'm like, God, you can explain. And they have like a 10 minute conversation while I'm just like, you know, like it's great.
David Jepson: It's so patient and understanding. It's so patient and understanding and especially
Jane Lu: sometimes he just like, yeah. That's right . It's gonna give everyone false hopes of like what? Yeah. How, how we should be behaving.
David Jepson: Yeah, exactly. If you weren't running Showpo, what would you be doing?
Jane Lu: Um. [00:44:00] Either like selling like one thing, maybe like kids' clothes for example.
Or maybe like almost have like a startup studio. So like a bunch of businesses running and like, kind of like maybe an incubator. Um, yeah, I don't know.
David Jepson: Serial entrepreneur.
Jane Lu: Yeah, for sure. Or I'll just like be a travel influencer. . We'll see. I don't know
David Jepson: on that actually. What's a final, I guess final quick fire?
Something on your bucket list.
Jane Lu: Oh, okay. God, on my bucket list is probably just going back to like somewhere I've already been like comfortable in Europe. Just going to Paris, having a nice restaurant. No kids like that would just be nice. I've already done that many times, but I feel like that if I, that's what I just wanna revisit.
Something's fun from like. The olden days.
David Jepson: Have you spent much time in China? Is that like a part, part of your heritage that you Yeah, I mean, embrace,
Jane Lu: I have been, I've been quite a few times and I've been quite a few times, like with family, with friends and [00:45:00] China's like a lot of fun, um, just to even as a travel destination.
Um, but my like, I mean, my grandparents come out a few years ago, so I don't have like more of a reason to go and I don't really need to. It's crazy. I haven't even like really. Need to go there for work. Um, you can do so much. Just it's, uh, you know, at the start, I didn't never travel because I didn't have the money.
And then by the time you could, all the systems are set up that you don't even need to. But yeah, actually I should have something more exciting on my bucket list. Maybe India, I feel like I should go to India. I'm waiting for, I'm waiting for a friend to get married, you know, I'm like, I'm not gonna go before then.
So. . Yeah. Yeah. Something more exciting, .
David Jepson: Perfect. Well, thank you for, thank you for the time today. Really, really enjoyed. Getting to know you and thank you for being so, so open and authentic.
Jane Lu: I've got, is there anything Verbal Diary off. Just word vomit a lot. .
David Jepson: So [00:46:00] it's been a been an absolute pleasure and honor to speak with you.
If people didn't know you, but now they do. Where should they. Where should they follow you? How can they stay in touch?
Jane Lu: Oh, great. You can follow me. I'm on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, um, as the lazy CEO and also my business is Showpo, S-H-O-W-P-O. Oh, and the podcast, the Lazy CEO podcast About the podcast.
David Jepson: of course. The podcast.
Jane Lu: That's right.
David Jepson: Fantastic. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. An absolute pleasure. And wishing you a. Great day.
Jane Lu: You too.