Speaker 1 00:00
We're here to deliver a project with the utmost integrity, honesty, and to meet a particular
standard. We got someone in to sort of sit with the team and to express and write them what
they feel about the business, and from there we built our team motto, which is building with
purpose. This is something that the team came up with. We've got an ethos of always trying to
be honest and transparent, and that sort of generates morale on its own. AI won't replace
anything from on site, so to speak, physically building, using hand, so forth, but from design
aspect it will. From your contract management, it will. If you're not ahead of the game, at least
with the trend, it will creep up quite quickly.
Speaker 2 00:46
Welcome back to CEO Behind the Scenes. I'm Chris Dutton, founder of the CEO magazine, and
today we're stepping inside an industry where leadership is tested daily, not in boardrooms, but
on site. My guest today is Abdullah Hadara. He's the director and head of operations at Hadarco
Construction, a business delivering complex commercial projects under tight timelines,
procurement pressures, and constant change. In 2025 Hadarco was awarded the Master
Builders Victoria Excellence in Construction Award for commercial buildings in the 10 to $15
million category, and named a finalist at the 2025 Master Builders Australia Excellence Awards
for commercial projects up to $20 million but beyond the awards, Abdullah's leadership story is
built on consistency, showing up every day, making tough calls, and keeping people safe,
motivated, and focused in high-pressure environments. Today, we'll talk leadership in an
execution-driven industry, and how collaboration creates real value. Abdullah, welcome.
Abdullah, construction is an industry where leadership is visible every day. How would you
describe your personal leadership style,
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Speaker 1 02:03
personal leadership. It's a very good question. We're definitely very hands on. We'd definitely
like to lead by example. That's definitely one aspect that we try to portray to all our guys in our
team, including, you know, third party consultants, contractors, whoever it may be. The idea is
to lead by example, you know, usual adage, first in, last out, kind of kind of set up, but really
also be the ones who promote problem solving, get everyone's input into whatever the task
may require, and make everyone feel that they're definitely part of the project. So, with that
holistically, I think that sort of brings out the best of the team. We're not one to sort of
micromanage. I don't really like to do that, but we do like give people room to grow, to sort of
express themselves, and not be afraid to make mistakes. I think that tends to work quite well
with our guys on site, and we tend to portray that also to the consultants and also to the
subcontracts on site, even though they're not directly part of the business, but they do feel like
they have that freedom to sort of remove within limitations, of course. But yeah, I think that's
that's helped itself in good said
Speaker 2 03:12
it's okay to make mistakes as long as you learn the lesson and don't repeat
Speaker 1 03:18
it. Yes, pretty much repeating the same mistake, it's definitely a different conversation to have,
but as long as you learn from it and sort of own up to it, and look as a director and owner, the
business sometimes we make mistakes, and I'm first to put my hand up, but I think it's what
you learn from it and how you grow from that, and I think the team tends to see that if the
owner of the business, the background of the business, is vulnerable in that aspect, and he's
willing to put his hand up. It sort of feeds to the team. Nobody's perfect without to make
mistakes. I think that's where we learn the best lessons, is when we make mistakes, and
actually it sticks to your memory quite well. So,
Speaker 2 03:55
absolutely, you've um, you've said there wasn't a defining moment that shaped how you lead,
but it was rather a mix of upbringing, growth moments, wins and losses, actually making
mistakes as well. How do those experiences influence the way that you lead teams today?
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Speaker 1 04:13
I think the one thing that sort of helped me growing up, and my brother-in-law, who's other
partner of the business, that sort of put one instill factor in us that we sort of tend to push
forward to our team at the moment, and that is it's what you do when nobody's watching that
really matters. It says little things that you try to improve yourself or improve the business. It's
not about what people think and what people say, it's your belief in yourself and you're still in
your character. And those little journeys along the way helped us with our wins and losses, that
you tend to learn from mistakes, you pick up the positives, and you keep going, and we sort of
bring that forward within our team. We like to, like I said before, like to get them to express
themselves. Nothing is going to be ever perfect, I think, whenever you have a perfect year, a
perfect. Project, then you ask yourself, okay, what am I missing? What's going wrong? The idea
is that you tend to learn to identify these things early. Again, this comes from the wins and
losses. Yeah, and then I think you sort of tend to grow, and you're not afraid. So all these little
things, sort of over time, day in, day out, get your feet stuck in the mud and get your hands
dirty, so to speak. Those kind of things tend to help you build your confidence and your
experience, and then you just pick it up and keep going, and the team tends to thrive on that.
So that's what's worked in health, so it has been one defining factor. It's definitely been a
multiple things,
Speaker 2 05:34
so still focusing on leadership, but more in your specific industry. Some projects are obviously a
lot more straightforward than other more complex builds. What daily leadership habits would
you say matter most on those really complex projects?
Speaker 1 05:51
Probably two things: time management is definitely key. If you can time manage your time
quite well, your brain sort of sends the work that once it ticks off little tasks, it wants to tick off
some more sense of achievement, so as those little tasks tend to grow into bigger tasks and
tend to do more things. So, time management is quite important, and opening clear
communication, trying to hide things or delay things, is not it is only can be detrimental to any
particular project. So, as long as you're on top of those two things, and clear communication,
whether it's to your fellow team members, to your management hierarchy, or to the client
itself, those two things tend to be the key to ensuring that any complex projects go and run as
smoothly as possible. Yeah, they're probably the two main aspects I'll put them down to:
Speaker 2 06:37
your industry, the industry continues to face disruption.
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Speaker 1 06:40
Okay,
Speaker 2 06:41
labor shortages, for example, procurement delays. We all know about cost pressures. How do
you manage risk and protect the schedule when a lot of it is outside of your control?
Speaker 1 06:52
Look, it really comes down to I think the company ethos. So it comes to back down to first, why
are you in this business and why you in this industry. Unfortunately, we're yes, the industry has
gone. It's been pretty much a rabbit race at the moment, where builders have gone down the
track of win any project at any cost, and hopefully it works out at the end. So we're sort of
specifically moved away from that, actually never gone down that path where the type of
business where we're happy to do the three to four or five projects a year, as long as a bit of
meat on the bone and give us the flexibility as a business to sort of mitigate these risks, and
these include that we vet our contractors as much as possible, they need to meet a particular
requirement, a particular standard that we approve of, they need to meet also ethos in terms of
open and clear communication with each other, we ensure that these contractors, these
suppliers, are with us on the journey, and they will always have monthly, quarterly, postcontract
risk management meetings, which are the vet and nut these kind of things out. An
idea is that we tend to keep the contractors, keep the suppliers who are willing to come along
for the journey, and we tend to find that these people are quite receptive, because we're not
there to screw them on price. So, I agree with this, and this is your price, that's fine. Okay, we
need to ensure that we lock this in and we work on this journey. Where we tend to get almost
contractors or builders get resistance is when they're gone in so tight in a volatile industry that
they're forced to put pressure on contractors, put pressure on suppliers, and that they get bit of
resistance where we're sort of moving away from that and we ensure that we pay them on
time, make sure that they feel as part of the team that they feel that they're important to the
team and they're on the journey. We tend to have that kind of reception from them that they're
willing to be part of us and part of our journey, and we tend to not out those people who are
not willing to do that, so it is quite stringent. We have to be quite adaptable. You have to be
open-minded and understand that these things are not set in stone, but as long as your, your
main ethos is there, you tend to, you know, navigate through, through the line man, so to
speak. So, yeah, it is an ongoing change, an ongoing something we have to repeat, always
going back to, always trying to find new ways. There's no golden formula, so to speak, Chris. So
it's just a matter of discussions and open communications, and just nutting these things out.
Really, it
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Speaker 2 09:12
sounds like your relationships with your contractors are key, and I'd love to know, How does
having good relationships with them minimize risk on a project. Overall, the fact that you've got
these people that you're so transparent and honest with.
Speaker 1 09:27
At the end of the day, we want to ensure, and we make it clear to everyone who works under
the Hadaka umbrella that we're here to deliver a project with the utmost integrity, honesty, and
to meet a particular standard. Ultimately, these contractors, as long as they're felt like that
we're not there to screw them, and that they feel like that they've been taken care of, and that
their interests are also important to us, they're more than happy to come on a journey, and
obviously we vet through those, as long as they meet that their quality has to be quite good in
order to work for under our umbrella, so we sort of vet through. With that, but it's extremely
important to meet these standards, and that flows through to quality to risk management, OHS.
So, our vetting system is quite stringent, but delivering a particular product and a sense of
achievement at the end that even our contractors and suppliers are quite happy with. We invite
them to our team barbecues, to our dinners. Everyone feels like they're part of the team, not
just someone's coming in and coming out, so it does reflect a result. So I think we're quite
proud of that.
Speaker 2 10:27
There's other leaders outside of the construction industry that will be listening to this. What
lessons from managing really complex builds would translate directly to today's broader
business challenges, maybe in their world,
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Speaker 1 10:44
I think adaptability is probably the main aspect that you can sort of apply to any business. Yes,
you got to have your business structure, you got to have your business plan, but there's a lot of
things that are out of your control, and the current market, I think every industry is sort of
affected with the current market, but you have to be able and flexible to be able to adapt with
potential changes, not to be reactive. It's more to be proactive. So, the one thing that we, as in
the customer exchange, everything's about scheduling, everything's about planning,
everything's about thinking one week ahead, one month ahead, six months ahead. So, I think
those lessons are important to adapt to any business. Your management plan has to be there
for you to see, but at the same time adaptable enough to sort of shift and weave between any
potential issues your industry might be facing, and be open-minded, open-minded that you can
change for the better. Sometimes you're sitting back, you don't want to be own worst enemy,
open up your horizons a bit, learn lessons from other companies. So I think adaptability is
probably the main one that most businesses think if they can understand that they can pretty
much be successful, no matter what industry they're in.
Speaker 2 11:57
Your company, Hidalgo, works in a lot of environments with a lot of bespoke requirements. Why
is collaboration with clients really important? And how do you approach this right from the
start, right from when you're discussing a project?
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Speaker 1 12:12
Pretty much every single project of ours is bespoke. We love the challenge. I think that's what
drives our team. Most of our teams are either engineer background or construction
management background, so this bespoke nothing off the shelf every single day is is a research
and design kind of day where we try to problem solve in order to have this project run as
smoothly as possible, and you've got restraints, time restraints, budget restraints,
communication is key. Where we sit down with the client, any third-party consultant, the design
team, whatever might be, understand the design brief, understand what the client is trying to
achieve. What's the purpose of this project? Most often we do public space projects, from
schools to shopping centers, whatever may be. So, what's a design brief? What's the client
trying to get out of it, and within the time strains and the budget, work with them to meet
these bespoke requirements. And this can only happen where everyone's on the same page
and everyone's understanding. So this communication could be okay, simple, there's a problem
on site, or there's a problem of design, we see this problem coming up, but here's two or three
other solutions, so we come with that approach, and that tends to ensure that everyone is
happy. The last thing you want is tension on any project. It's inevitable, you're dealing with
different people, different minds, and so forth. But open and clear communication tends to
break down that barrier. Put your cards on the table. This is what it is. It's what's going on, and
however, this is how we can help you achieve what you're trying to achieve. And I think most
clients tend to respect that, respect that we're here to be part of the journey. Any project, we're
talking about multi million dollar projects here, so this is something that could be standing for
the next few 100 years, so they want to make sure that they get value for money, and we tend
to show that what we offer is much more valuable than the price tag that you know we signed
in a day. So, clear communication, open communication is what tends to put everyone's heart
at ease. Really,
Speaker 2 14:15
it sounds like you're very much in a partnership with your clients when you go into a build.
What does trust look like, actually, in practice between yourself and a client when timelines are
tight, expectations are high? How do you, how do you foster trust between both parties,
especially when you're working with them, maybe for the first time?
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Speaker 1 14:38
Has to be something that you have to do from the start of the project, you can't come sort of
towards the end of project and sort of change your way you deliver and the way you approach
a client. If from day one you're open and clear and you meet your target and you show that
you're trying to deliver a particular high standard or finish and you're being open and
transparent with could be anything. From the costing to the variations, you slowly build trust
with any client, and so when it comes to the point where it's towards end of project tight
timelines, they'll be a bit more receptive and understanding. Okay, now this guy has been to us
along the journey, this is not just excuses, it's pulling out the clouds, so it's really from the
start. Get them involved in meetings, have a chat with them, bring them onto the project, let
them walk through the project, let them physically see, smell, touch. It's been working quite
well.
Speaker 2 15:27
Do you invite them to your barbecue?
Speaker 1 15:29
We do good to this stage, because every single client has my personal mobile number. I want
them to understand that we really honor the journey. So, one of the things I do as a director,
and my brother, the other director, is that we give the client a call, especially to start a project.
How things are going? How's the team going? Anything that we can do better? Anything's not
working. We go to site meetings every now and then, not to intrude, but just to say, listen,
here's, we're here, here's a face to the business post construction. How things are going? How's
the maintenance going? Yeah, and we do invite them to the barbecue. We have a reputation for
putting on pretty good barbecue, so once the word's out there, there's always a lot more
people than we anticipated.
Speaker 2 16:09
I'd like an invite to the barbecue one day, if that's right.
Speaker 1 16:12
Definitely next time you're in Melbourne, let me know. You're definitely in.
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Speaker 2 16:15
Thank you. You mentioned about team morale, and I think that's something important to talk
about during really sort of long complex projects, when you know it's getting to crunch time,
and you should be delivering. How do you keep team morale high? You know, when the
pressure gets high,
Speaker 1 16:33
it's really driven by how we approach everyday life. We tend to have a life work balance, for
example. Yes, we might work hard during the week, but refuse to work weekends. We promote
social family. We tend to have team gatherings. We tend to bring people in to sort of build
team building activities, and so forth. And everyone we bring in, we sort of emphasize them
and explain to them that we're not just your cookie cutter builder, and build any standard
project, every single project has a quite bespoke. So, back to all saying before, where every
single day is a problem solving, and that tends to bring out the creativity out of the team, and
that sort of in itself sort of builds morale. And the second part of it is that one of the things
about the team building exercise, we got someone in to sort of sit with the team and to express
and write, then what they feel about the business, and from there we built our team motto,
which is building with purpose. This is something that the team came up with once they feel
like they're part of the journey, once they feel like that, we've got an ethos of always trying to
be honest and transparent, that they feel like they're really part of something, and that sort of
generates morale on its own. And again, we're not here to critique, we don't hear to put people
down, you make mistakes, we learn. So once they have that sense of freedom, print of
creativity, it tends to flow throughout the project, whether it's a good day, is a bad day, is I
think they feel like that they're happy, so we try to create a happy environment. The building
industry is can be very cutthroat, so we tend to do things outside the business, build tipping
exercises, and we'd sort of lead from the top that this is how it has to be. We also make sure
our middle management has the same ethos. Anyone within our team can speak to me directly,
a door's always open. We're very open to communication. What the clients see, what the
contractors see, what the suppliers see is what we are internally. So, yeah, it's becomes quite
natural over time.
Speaker 2 18:31
It sounds like everyone, from contractors, suppliers, staff, management, and your clients are all
part of the Hidalco family. It sounds like you're all in it together.
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Speaker 1 18:42
It's the only way it's going to work in order to build these complex projects. Last thing you want
is, you know, rogue people going left, right, and center. You have to be part of the team, it
really is. But then again, that only can be done. Going back to earlier point, that where the
builder is not really buying the work, there's enough meat on the bone. Look, we make
everyone feel like we make money, then, and they win business to make money. That's fine.
So, as long as you've got that security, they tend to be part of the journey, and they
understand that, you know, what I want to go the extra mile for these guys. I want to do the
extra hour. I don't have to do it, but I'll do it because it's for the betterment of the business,
betterment of the project. And then, obviously, repeat. So, any contractor or supplier who
meets our criteria aligns with our ethos. They're going to get the second project, the third
project. So it's a very long term. We promote long term. A lot of our contract supplies have
been for 20 plus years, so we tend to promote that quite heavily.
Speaker 2 19:35
Correct me if I'm wrong. Hoda Co has been established for over 60 years.
Speaker 1 19:39
Yeah, it's a business that late father started. Yes,
Speaker 2 19:42
fantastic. As you will well know, the construction industry has traditionally been quite slow to
adapt to change. What do you think? Looking forward to what shifts should leaders start to pay
really close attention to now? Because the world's changing.
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Speaker 1 20:00
Is changing very, very quickly. Yeah, I think AI is definitely in all its forms is something that if
you don't tend to adapt and adopt early, you may fall behind, and it's always formed. So that
could be AI in it. Look, AI won't replace anything from on site, so to speak, physically building
using hand, so forth, but from design aspect it will, from your contract management it will, even
from your estimating and tending content aspect, that will. So most builders volt gives advice
to them is to get to a point where you're sort of, if you're not ahead of the game, at least with
the trend, otherwise it will creep up quite quickly. The only thing that I think will stop a lot of
builders currently is these things can be quite expensive, and especially when you're going on
tight margins, the last thing we're gonna do is what they'll deem to be unnecessary costs. But
this is where the mind shift has to change, where these are quite necessary, because over the
months, over the years, these will be more efficient practices, more efficient systems that will
save you time in the long run, but I think we're still in the early phase, so to speak, from the AI
and construction, but I think there'll be significant changes in the next three to five years. So
that's probably one advice I'll give any other builder, any potential builder who's looking to get
into the industry or currently in industry is to see what you can adapt with AI. It is inevitable,
you can't put your head in sand. So, it is what it is. I'm
Speaker 2 21:27
glad you mentioned AI. How did you really see AI and modular or prefab construction reshaping
the way projects are actually delivered? Because the way you deliver a project from start to
finish, now it's probably going to be very different in five years' time.
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Speaker 1 21:44
Yes, I think with prefab and modular, there's always going to be your conventional and prefab.
With those two, I don't think one will sort of replace the other, but there'll be two different types
of construction options for people to choose from. The difference will be where conventional
construction, you have a bit more creativity in what you can build currently, different shapes,
different styles, architectural expressions, where prefab and modular is still confined within
what you can build within a factory and what you can deliver the site on the jigsaw piece and
put it together, that will change as products and technology changes, that will change, but as it
currently stands, that's where it is. Where construction and the prefab costs at the moment are
relatively similar, where the advantage where precast and module have is that it may be
couple months quicker to deliver the project, because it is a lot of in-house design, factory
prefabrication, then deliver to site where conventional everything's for quit from the bound
from the ground up. So, I think that's where those two are. But in five years or so, I think that
will change again. Conventional construction always be there. I think that will always be there
to a certain aspect. Module annual come to a certain point. And then AI is, as like I mentioned
before, I think it's more from your management and project delivery, that's where it will be
quite efficient, and will save you time, and you know, require less resource, and so forth. So
that's why I think we're industry beheading, but it's rapidly changing, Chris. So the conversation
we're having now, we could have in 12 months, and something else would change. The one
thing that other countries are adopting that is not quite prevalent here in Australia is BIM
modeling, so other countries in Europe, it's mandated by the government. There was talk of the
government doing it here, which is a model where, from design all the way to procurement to
construction, all the way to delivery and facilities measure all the way to the end, it's all off one
platform. I think that's something that will come eventually, but yeah, I think the government
really needs to drive that change on government projects, and then the industry will follow suit
on that.
Speaker 2 23:43
What message would you give to the government to help drive that change? If they can hear
this now,
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Speaker 1 23:49
they have to definitely think long term. I know everything's controlled by budgets, it is, it is, it's
out of our control, but if they can, for the betterment of the industry, during COVID, I think, if
I'm not mistaken, the exciting industry, for every dollar it spent, was generating almost three to
$4 return for the government, but since then it's slipped on its head. So I think construction was
one of the biggest drivers of the economy. Things almost 10% of GDP at one point, it was quite
strong, but in order to have that continual long-term survival, the government needs to ensure
that they have long-term planning. They need to change the narrative that it's not about the rat
race, not ensure that builders are not going down a pathway. It's about winning the project at
all costs. It's about delivering the project for the right price, that way everyone's making better
money. The builders are comfortable in spending that little bit extra money in bettering their
systems using AI, whatever other technology is needed, and I think that can only drive the
economy further than the track. At the moment, I feel like it's all just band-aid solutions, to be
honest, Chris. So, it's going to take someone with a bit of a backbone, I think, to drive that
policy in the government. It's going to take a bit of time,
Speaker 2 24:59
yeah. Very, very wise words, Abdullah. We have a final segment, a closing tradition, if you like.
Before we wrap up, we always finish with a couple of quick questions. What's one thing you've
changed your mind about recently, and why?
Speaker 1 25:16
To keep it within what we've been talking about, I was quite hesitant with adapting AI, but I
have changed. I've changed why, because what I was saying before, I think if we're not onto it,
we're definitely gonna be behind that April.
Speaker 2 25:29
And what's one belief you haven't changed your mind about something that you'd want to
share to help others lead or live better?
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Speaker 1 25:38
Being true to yourself, I think that's probably the one thing that was instilled in me early, my
father. I think people see that, people resonate with that. So, business challenges, life throws
things at your left, right, and center, but try to be true to yourself. I think that's what resonates
with a lot of people, and it does. People think it doesn't work in business, but my personal
opinion, I think it does. Think who you are as a person, you are the business. Many be true to
yourself, honest to yourself, and just be as genuine as you can. I think that tends to shine
through all the other bells and whistles out there that's trying to cloud your judgment. Just be
true to yourself.
Speaker 2 26:15
I completely agree, and yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Excuse the pun, Abdullah.
Thank you for joining us, and for sharing such a grounded, practical perspective on leadership,
resilience, and execution in one of the most demanding industries. And to our listeners, if this
conversation resonated, share it with someone navigating complexity right now. Don't forget to
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Behind the Scenes.